Drupal vs Joomla: popularity
Google trends is a tool that analyzes Google web searches and that can visualize search trends over time using so called "search-volume graphs". These graphs usually provide a good mechanism to compare the popularity of two or more products.
Here is the search-volume graph that compares Drupal and Joomla:
It is worth pointing out that Joomla has been around a lot longer than the graph suggests. In 2005, the bulk of Mambo's core developers left Mambo and started Joomla after a dispute with Miro Corporation, the company that founded Mambo. Keep this in mind when interpreting the graph. (I tried adding Mambo to the graph but the term Mambo isn't unique to Mambo, the content management system.)
That said, you can see that Joomla is more popular than Drupal, and that Joomla has been growing a lot faster. Why? The general consensus is that Joomla has a more appealing balance between functionality, flexibility, performance, quality of code, ease of use, documentation, user interface design, support and product marketing.
I want to add that Drupal is not trying to compete with Joomla. We are actually pretty good at ignoring the competition, and just do what we think is best to do. Regardless, there is significant overlap in functionality and many of our users ask questions about the differences between both ...
Hmm. So what's the good news and/or where does Drupal have a competitive advantage over Joomla, are the questions which leap to mind...
The open source IBM project for instance, decided to go with Drupal over Joomla/Mambo because:
"Mambo was very appealing from the ease of install and the UI, but the development track at the time was fractured and didn't give us any confidence of support."
That's not a very descriptive/sourced statement by the IBM'ers, but what's up with that? Is there anything to it?
Likewise they affirmed their choice of Drupal by saying:
"We did have to invest some time to learn the Drupal way, and the framework just seemed to make sense. We also felt that Drupal provided the right combination of framework and flexibility to break out of the framework when needed to get the job done."
Does Joomla offer the same extensibility?
August 29, 2006 - 20:50See also my posting. Less about Joomla (which you should focus on less as well) but more about Drupal.
August 29, 2006 - 21:35Apparently we treasure other values and that's just fine. Drupal is clean, lean and super extendable. Everything else comes after these. Or so I think.
August 29, 2006 - 21:40Did my own follow-up by Googling "joomla drupal" and most of the links I clicked on tilted toward Drupal over Joomla (especially if one eliminates the standard installer/ease-of-use whining, which the next release will take care of anyway), so I don't know if it could be considered "general consensus" that Joomla is "better". (et tu?)
This guy had some good comparison commentary, interlaced with, perhaps, some good marketing theory.
August 29, 2006 - 22:15Actually, it depends on how one looks at it. Joomla is the continuation of Mambo. So, a graph that shows all three of them, Drupal, Mambo, Joomla is more appropriate. You can see that Mambo/Joomla declined then started to recover.
Having said that, Google trends chronicles searches, which is not a measure of popularity or quality, just what it says: searches.
August 30, 2006 - 01:35You can't really do a comparison including "Mambo" in Google search results and make any meaningful link to Joomla and Drupal: the term "Mambo" is used in other contexts (i.e. "Learn to Dance Mambo").
August 30, 2006 - 16:22I guess the guys at Joomla are better at marketing. Just look at the description on their homepage, it says
"Joomla! is one of the most powerful Open Source Content Management Systems on the planet. It is used all over the world for everything from simple websites to complex corporate applications. Joomla! is easy to install, simple to manage, and reliable."
Could we say the same about Drupal ? Technically yes (with the upcoming install system), but newcomers won't believe it. The website doesn't seem to tell the same story. The color palette is so cold, the pages seem so nude. Add obscure catchphrases (community plumbing, wtf?), outdated screenshots, and an ordinary description on the homepage, and you get an overall feeling of geeky bricolage.
This may sound harsh, but as a designer I can see everyday how much these things count. In fact I really thing drupal.org is not badly designed. I know the goal is not to compete directly with Joomla or any other framework/CMS, but it seems to me the quality, power, and credibility of Drupal could be better shown and told. It's about communication, not marketing buzzwords.
It took me a long time, even after I registered at drupal.org, to fully understand the true quality of Drupal. You know every CMS pretends to be great... Fortunately I've been stubborn enough. :)
August 30, 2006 - 01:41I second that Joomla has better marketing and that their website is more appealing to first time visitors.
If your goal is popularity/revenue/marketshare, technology doesn't necessarily win. Marketing is important too.
August 30, 2006 - 11:11I second that Joomla has better marketing and that their website is more appealing to first time visitors. If your goal is popularity/revenue/marketshare, technology doesn't necessarily win. Marketing is important too.
Typical Drupalian statement. Pray. Tell me something Joomla can’t do that Drupal does that you assume is more technologically advanced. If it is cleaner code and flexible APIs then watch out because that has all been fixed in the upcoming Joomla version 1.5.
Marketing? Do you know there is something called Wordpress that has a uglier looking website/forum than Drupal but still remains the most popular. Joomla is easier to install, work with, and even the templating is far easier. Reasons why site like http://www.joomlabeauty.com/ and http://www.joomlaawards.com/ have cropped up.
September 1, 2006 - 03:53Apples and oranges. Different goals, different audiences. Drupal at the moment is aimed at developers and web designers. Joomla and Wordpress are also aimed at non-developer users as an out-of-the-box solution, which Drupal doesn't claim to be. Wordpress administration is not that simple. In fact if you just use it as a blogging tool it's a bit overhelming. But it's nicely laid out and is far less intimidating than Drupal's administration pages!
September 1, 2006 - 14:55How about something like this for a marketing pitch:
What makes Drupal-powered sites great? Drupal-powered sites are more than brochures, they invite interaction. Drupal-powered sites can serve up visitors data of any complexity and when more is needed they can be extended to handle that too. They're easy for people to find with search engines. People who visit are likely to come back. And when more people come they still find a fast and responsive site. In other words, community, accesibility, and scalability.
It's a bit clunky but I successfully used a similar pitch to my department when it was deciding on a CMS.
August 30, 2006 - 07:36"Could we say the same about Drupal ? Technically yes (with the upcoming install system), but newcomers won't believe it. The website doesn't seem to tell the same story. The color palette is so cold, the pages seem so nude. Add obscure catchphrases (community plumbing, wtf?), outdated screenshots, and an ordinary description on the homepage, and you get an overall feeling of geeky bricolage."
Amen to that. :)
August 30, 2006 - 09:46Slightly off-topic, but did anyone notice where those searches are coming from?
On position 1 there is Budapest (home to Karoly Negyesi aka chx), on position 2 there's Vancouver (home to Bryght), and on position 4 there is San Francisco (home to Civicspace).
It looks like Drupal's popularity is closely linked to its developers. Or, chx et al are just going wild on Google. :)
(As a side note, those numbers are obviously relative and not absolute.)
August 30, 2006 - 11:42Perhaps part of the reason is that Drupal is extremely search engine friendly. For example a Google search for 'views' comes up with the Drupal Views module as result number 4.
If people searching for Drupal answers get their results on the first page, and people searching for Joomla/Mambo have to revise their query 3 or 4 times to find the result that helps them then this would (at least partially) account for fewer Drupal searches.
August 30, 2006 - 12:56Amazing, but at the moment Drupal views.module comes first when searching for 'views'.
February 25, 2007 - 21:43How can a valid comparison be made between Joomla vs Drupal "popularity" when simply checking search engine results? That is only part of the picture.
How many downloads do each of these portals have? Again, that too is a partial picture - since the project with more version releases would gain more total downloads.
How many websites are "Drupal"-powered vs "Joomla"-powered? That is also tough since templates can be modified to remove the notice at the bottom, etc.
August 30, 2006 - 16:29I've used TYPO3 extensively (4+ years) and haven't been so happy with the development during the last year or two. After looking at Drupal and Joomla, I chose Joomla because my content editors found it was easier to add and edit content. To me, Drupal, like TYPO3, seems more geared to developers, but I have to worry more about my content editors and which CMS they prefer to use. Also, the extension directory for Joomla is so nicely built and has many great features.
September 9, 2006 - 22:40I'm not really familiar with Typo3 (only spent a couple hours using it) so I can't really comment on that. I would, however, be interested in the feedback from your content editors. Especially the kind of feedback that can be translated into concrete action points.
September 11, 2006 - 14:48Joomla and Mambo are often offered as one click installers on popular hosting platforms. So it is very easy to start a Joomla installation. Downside of things are that users who only have experience with this one click install script usually neglect possible security issues.
We host sites for 5000 customers, about 10 percent of them uses a Mambo or Joomla setup because it is offered in the control panel. About all security issues on our servers are related to unpatched vulnerabilities.
Untill now we haven't dealt with a compromised Drupal installation because it forces the user - by the way it installs - to learn the platform. After going through the install most users will be able to patch flawlessly.
I think polularity will increase with the upcoming webbased installer. If a system that warns users for vulnerabilities or even fixes them automatically is implemented, Drupal will probably be the best system for every user, from the code experienced to the one click experienced user.
September 16, 2006 - 08:59Dries, we're not 'competing' with Drupal either. Just a small clarification though, you say: "In 2005, the bulk of Mambo's core developers left Mambo and started Joomla.". In reality it was the entire development team that left, unified and unanimous in our decision ( original statement).
All the best for Open Source! :)
November 3, 2006 - 06:07Hi Dries, very nice post. It's good to know that you yourself are open to this line of thought.
Why is Joomla more popular? IMHO:
0. Changing nature of customers. It used to be that if you wanted a web site, you either needed to study HTML etc, or get a web developer to produce the web site. Now, customers are empowered to try and do things for themselves, causing a new entity to emerge: the prosumer -- a hybrid of "producer" and "consumer".
Most of these prosumers are just looking to set up simple websites and blogs. Joomla is appealing to these because it's a quick fix.
In addition, I suspect (though I don't have stats) that Drupal appeals to developers while Joomla appeals more to that breed of web developers who are more focused on design than on architecture. This is a much wider user-base, methinks.
1. Easier to install. Drupal is a headache to install especially if you don't know what you're doing. Joomla is easier to install. Well, relatively easier. We need that Drupal installer!
2. Looks better right out of the box. After you install Joomla, the default theme looks great. Even their site looks great and professional. They even have this graphic that makes it look like Joomla comes in a boxed package. So I agree with those who say that Joomla marketing is better (at this point :-)).
3. Drupal needs better themes -- or an easier way to make themes. Drupal is still young compared to the other CMS. Because of this, the development has focused on functionality but not really on the look. It's very difficult to learn how to change its look (I'm trying to learn it, and I don't have time).
4. Drupal's website is cluttered and rough. Some recent improvements have been made, but it's still not enough. Take it from the point of view of a newcomer, wanting to find out what makes Drupal tick and how to install it (which is how I felt and sometimes still feel whenever I visit the site). This is ironic because Drupal's tools can actually be used to improve the information architecture of the website!
Having said all that, I still think Drupal is more extensible and better suited to manage knowledge, mainly because of its powerful taxonomy management and its flexibility.
Here are some possible Next Actions in line with this:
1. Evangelize more about Drupal's architecture/flexibility.
2. Improve ease of changing Drupal's look and feel. (The usability improvements using AJAX may be a good step towards this, but we still also need better themes or a better way to tweak the look)
3. Attract more design-oriented users. With all due respect to the hardworking developers, the community needs to widen reach beyond hard-core developers. We need more designers who are willing to contribute their themes or port beautiful themes into Drupal. This probably needs evangelization too.
http://digitalsolutions.ph/couchkamotereviews/why_choose_drupal
November 10, 2006 - 03:12I find this an interesting article, although short. I like the debate though.
I've only learned of CMS' a year ago, abouts, and tried Xoops, Joomla then learned of Drupal. I've been using Drupal since. I have to entirely agree that Drupal should boost its markeeting scheme, hype itself up and ad more flari to its website because its always the same old. I actually read more on the site then usual today and its so dry and technical and hard to understand. I'm no coder. Also IMO Drupal NEEDS more themes, and needs more VARIETY of them. They all kind of look alike which is not cool.
I like the functionality and what it can do and ease of use, and the install of 5.0 rc1 is a LOT easier over 4.7. I admit I still don't entirely understand how powerful the taxonomy is and that was quite confusing to wrap my brain around when I learned what it was, the categories, vocab, taxo, etc.
About a year later I feel almost more then ever that I need to be able to code php to be able to get a real pretty site where I can just kind of cobble one together. I can say I'm in it for the themes because I just want a site that does what I want and looks pretty and doesn't break.
Thats my two cents from a "n00b."
I'll actually be looking more closely at Joomla after this as I never really gave it a chance.
Not a threat or anything, just a fact.
January 1, 2007 - 03:46Yes, if Joomla is catching up with Drupal about their weaker issues, then Drupal should do the same about Drupals weaker issues towards Joomla? Or not?
Then I'm missing TikiWiki in this picture. Apparently most are quite focussed on their own system, even forgetting to look at the pro's & con's of TikiWiki.
And how about MediaWiki? That is a success story too!
Suppose Drupal can make a 'bridge' or something to MediaWiki?
In the way that doc's can be easily imported/exported/ integrated and so on + username/passwords sharing...?
Good luck!
January 12, 2007 - 09:10Here is the link to a graph including mediawiki and tikiwiki.
http://google.com/trends?q=drupal%2Cjoomla%2Cmediawiki%2Ctikiwiki&ctab=0...
Personal opinion; Drupal is a CMS-framework, Joomla is a weblog tool.
November 30, 2007 - 11:15Here's a live link to the comparison on google-trends.
http://google.com/trends?q=drupal%2Cjoomla
The joomla curve is looking a bit flatter now. Who knows if that means anything.
April 30, 2007 - 00:17Joomla was a dead end for me in April 2007 as it did not offer the ability to let end users separately control their own content. this is called ACL, and should be the foundation of managing any content. Joomla is pretty interface and works well if you have once group of users, but if your a developer wanting to empower the end user with the ability to create and edit content Drupal is your answer.
May 11, 2007 - 21:27I have been studying a lot of joomla vs drupal debate for setting up my first site. I have just summarised some of my finding on my blog Drupal Vs Joomla. I hope it helps.
Personally I am going for drupal.
May 20, 2007 - 22:03Am always amused by the 'my CMS is better than yours' attitude. It reminds me of Mac vs PC pish. You use whatever is appropriate for the job...
I use both Drupal and Joomla for all sorts of sites. I have to say that it doesn't matter if I put my best designer programmers on a drupal job, it still has the feel of a site made in a back bedroom by someone wearing underpants.
At the end of the day if I produce sites for companies they always ask for performance but end up paying for looks. I think this is where Joomla scores.
Also when anyone asks me where to start in CMS's I can put my hand on my heart and recommend Joomla. Drupal works beautifully but it does have a difficult learning curve.
Also I do get annoyed at people that think they have an opinion on CMS's because they set it up on a server at home once. I have been messing with these things for too many years and the true value of them can only be assessed after living with them day after day, and more to the point, living with people that you have built them for afterwards. I do believe Joomla has the advantage there for ease of maintainability.
June 1, 2007 - 21:48I also have found that Drupal has been the most flexible of the two as well as the most user friendly.
December 26, 2007 - 01:36@ Dries: I think it's cool that you bring up this topic; you do it in a nice a balanced way. I come from Jooomla-world, and I am now looking into Drupal because of the core multisite and community features. I must say that while templating is super easy with joomla, Drupal gives me a very robust impression over all. Keep up the good work!
January 11, 2008 - 13:32I think an urban myth has sprung up that says you have to know how to code to use Drupal. I'm totally non-technical and I've found Drupal just as easy to use as Joomla. I also looked at the file size of the application and concluded in a non-technical way that Drupal must be better coded than Joomla because it's a lot smaller and has about the same functionality. I also appreciate the fact that there are guidelines for extension development in Drupal where in Joomla extensions have very wacky interfaces, security issues and functionality that is not standardized at all.
January 11, 2008 - 20:16I agree with Joer. Just looking at the search volume only means that it was more actively searched. It could be as simple as not having a guessable website address sometimes so that you are forced to search rather than just type it in.
I disagree that they aren't in competition with each other. I wouldn't see both packages on the same url which automatically puts them in competition with each other, regardless of the marketing.
January 23, 2008 - 20:33Apparently we treasure other values and that's just fine. Drupal is clean, lean and super extendable. Everything else comes after these. Or so I think.
February 7, 2008 - 13:08Actually, it depends on how one looks at it. Joomla is the continuation of Mambo. So, a graph that shows all three of them, Drupal, Mambo, Joomla is more appropriate. You can see that Mambo/Joomla declined then started to recover.
Having said that, Google trends chronicles searches, which is not a measure of popularity or quality, just what it says: searches.
February 14, 2008 - 22:24I am using the newest version 6.1 of Drupal on my site that I am right now participating with to the international webmaster and search engine optimization contest "Seocontest2008" organized by UK Webmaster World.
I opted for Drupal for it is the most friendly versatile CMS I ever met.
March 7, 2008 - 18:29I host a Joomla user group in Chicago. One of the things we're doing is trying out Drupal, to see what the commonality/differences are.
I agree that Joomla's communication is far better, but not convinced the software itself is superior. At the end of the day, SOFTWARE is only as good as the TOTAL program - the code, the marketing, the support, the ease of use, the graphic design and usability, the supporting documentation...It's like saying the quality of a film is all about how well the celluloid holds up - forget the actors, cinematography, music, etc.
So, I'd recommend to ANYONE wanting to develop their own software - get a well-rounded TEAM to help out. Get a damn good code team, but for goshsakes, surround them with talent at all levels!
-JMC
March 11, 2008 - 06:50In comparing Joomla and Drupal - I use them both, but for very different tasks. Which is better - a rake or a shovel? Depends on the need.
Joomla is more suited for displaying content like company home pages, shopping, etc - and does so very simply and very well. Content sites can be done with Drupal - but are faster with Joomla to me. Only frustration - ever seen a good Joomla theme repository like Drupal has?
Drupal is more suited for community involved pages - where people interact, send messages, build the "mysite", etc. Also excels where PHP in the site is needed - natively supported. Setup a Christian networking site and it was very easy with Drupal. May start using for content sites given the ease of finding good tested themes.
Using Joomla for a community-based site is like digging with a rake.
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